A conversation between Peggy Stern, SuperDville CEO, and Max Strebel, Director of The SuperD! Show and W.U.N.D.R on how Dyslexia has shaped him, his work, and his experiences.
The SuperD! Show and W.U.N.D.R are curricula for elementary and middle schoolers respectively in the form of short, live-action video skits starring kids with learning differences that address a wide variety of social and emotional learning themes.
Peggy: Why don’t we start with how we met?
Max: I was at NYU, studying Film & Television at the Tisch School for the Arts with a focus on Animation. I had made a short abstract animated movie my freshman year called Words, which was about my dyslexia. My teacher, Zoya, really liked it and passed it on to Peggy, because you were already working on SuperD and I remember meeting with you and wondering if this thing will ever happen. Lo and behold, you were probably one of the first people to hire me after graduating to work on the SuperD Show and have been one of my biggest mentors and have continued to hire me onto projects.
Peggy: What has been the impact of your dyslexia on your life and how did you become a filmmaker?
Max: Being dyslexic has had a huge impact on my career and what I do as a profession.
I went to a private school in San Francisco and was in an environment where the mission of the school and my teachers was for students to find their passion. It was integrated into the curriculum for students to figure out what they were passionate about, what their strengths were, what learning styles they were good at, and what they actually enjoyed.
I was more of a visual learner since reading was very hard for me and so, I started making movies for class instead of writing essays. My teachers were great and encouraged me to do that, which, of course, requires writing a script, which is the equivalent of writing an essay, plus all the other things that are required to animate. It was so much more work that I was putting into these animations and my teachers saw that and were happy for me to communicate my learning in that way.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve been very passionate about using film as a medium to communicate ideas. And it’s funny, I’ve realized that I’m mainly doing animation for documentaries which is exactly the same thing that I was doing when I was in 7th grade, you know, using animation to teach people about real life or science or history or whatever I was learning in school.
Peggy: What drew you to working on SuperDville?
Max: I mean your passion for the project was magnetic. But also, it was really exciting, because the animated film that I started in high school was about my own dyslexia, which has always been part of my identity and although I’ve never really felt ashamed of it, it has definitely played a role in my whole life and my education. I think my dyslexia is part of why I discovered my love of animation – being able to express myself creatively in that way. And here comes Peggy Stern who wants me to continue doing both animation/filmmaking and think about Dyslexia- in one project. It was super exciting and would ultimately be the best first job I could possibly imagine.
I was drawn to the project because it was exactly the kind of work that I was already interested in doing and it was nice to find someone who celebrated that and wanted to expand on it and bring it to kids. That was another nice thing, was that I made my little movie because I like animation, and I used dyslexia as a theme. But what I really like about you, Peggy, is that you are always thinking about the impact of our work. Who is going to see this? How do we get this out there to kids, how are we going to make a change in the world? It was really exciting to see you have this real focus on wanting to make the world a better place by giving kids this sense of belonging in the world and using this project as a way to create community, to create understanding for kids, to make kids with learning differences not feel alone, to really use media as an educational and social-emotional tool.
Peggy: I felt strongly that the scripts should be written by people with Learning Differences, so you, David Bailen, and I all had Dyslexia. What was it like for you to get to write your scripts that are part of the series?
Max: I loved writing these pieces. It was definitely challenging finding that balance of it being educational media, but also fun because kids don’t want to feel like they’re being pulled by a teacher through a video. They want to enjoy it. It needs to be light and exciting for them, regardless of what the messaging is. But then the messaging gets through to them in a more subconscious way. And so finding that balance between what the kids are going to find entertaining and interesting and how are we going to get these messages through to them in a non-dry or dogmatic way? We were always talking about dogma, creating that balance was really important.
Peggy: What were some of the challenges of actually shooting the series with kids who were not professional actors and had learning differences?
Max: It was quite challenging, As I have said I have dyslexia myself, but I had never really been in a room as an adult with a bunch of kids with dyslexia and some with ADHD as well. And it was definitely a learning curve for me because the kids could barely sit still and here we are trying to frame them in a close-up and get them to say their lines, and we could barely keep them in one place. It took a lot of patience because the kids got tired, And they would rile each other up if they were all in the same room. All this education on how to make a movie went out the door, and it was like, okay, how do we make a movie under these circumstances?
We figured out a lot of tools and learned how to adapt to the situation but it was the dedication of the kids and the excitement that they had for the project that got us through. A lot of the kids had never met other kids with dyslexia, so there was a lot of bonding and excitement around being with a group of kids who all had learning differences and here we are in a space where this is celebrated. Also, all of the crew has learning differences so to see these adults, with fancy equipment who are on big sets in New York City, are all dyslexic, we were all role models for the cast.
Peggy: What was the high point of working with the elementary school cast?
Max: The biggest high point for me was Ari. Honestly, I came in and my first impression of him was, this kid who has dyslexia and ADHD is going to be a difficult one and hard to work with. He’s going to get everyone to riled up and he’s extremely ADHD so he was bouncing off the walls. He was sweet, but I was like, how on earth are we going to work with him but you cast him because you were sure he would be amazing and saw a lot of things in him that I wasn’t able to see at the beginning.
And I sort of rolled with it but by the end of the series, I was more than blown away by him and able to see everything that you saw in him. He became the real star of the show and his energy was kinetic. You could feel it on the screen, and all the work that it took to kind of get him to say the line or sit in the right place became so insignificant in comparison to the energy that he brought to the whole thing and the spirit that he had. And then also just how incredibly smart he was, by the end, he was writing scripts for us as well.
It was just such a high point or eye-opening thing to see because I was the kid who had to do the work to win over the teacher and hope not to be judged just because I didn’t fit into the box that the teacher wanted me to fit into. So it was a perfect example because I was that person who wouldn’t have given Ari a shot or just sort of been like, this is too much after the first day. And so it was really rewarding to be taught a lesson through him. In many ways the lesson that the whole show is about; give these kids a chance and they will have amazing things to offer.
Peggy: What was your first thought when you heard initially that I wanted to do these videos with real kids with learning differences who were not professional actors?
Max: I thought it was a great idea, and it totally made sense. I didn’t know what that would entail, but I think it’s super important for the whole concept of the series that kids can see themselves in the show. And it’s something that I think is overarching in Hollywood, that there’s representation, that the actors that are playing the roles that they are in are representing some form of the identity that they’re playing.
Peggy: What were your goals for what should happen with SuperDville?
Max: My goals are that it will continue to get out there and that kids will see it, appreciate it, learn from it, and feel seen. That the next generation has a series that makes them feel supported and not alone in their struggle. That’s really what is the most important thing to me, that SuperD is destigmatizing Learning Differences as a label for kids. I’ve never felt much stigma within my community as an adult and within my very supportive private school but I know that is far from the case in other places. For many kids with any kind of learning difference, like dyslexia, Dyscalculia, dysgraphia, ADHD, it’s not that easy. A lot of people feel alone and that they’re the only ones who are neuro-diverse. A lot of parents freak out and then they put all of their freak out onto their kids. So, I just hope that SuperDville helps both kids and families to feel like this isn’t just our thing and we’re not alone going through school in a system that is not always set up to help.
Peggy: I think you were a very special combination of things to find for this project because not only did you have all these amazing talents: you can write and do animation and direct, all of which you did in the series, but as someone with a learning difference, you grew up with all these things that we are were trying to get across already part of your education. I remember in the very beginning, you would sometimes go, “do we have to make a big deal about that?” Because you hadn’t felt stigma and you hadn’t felt bad about yourself when you were growing up because your parents were amazing about your being a dyslexic and so was your school.
Max: I went to a school that was one of the first adopters of SEL and I remember we would roll our eyes that we’re going to have to resolve our conflicts, and we would make so much fun of some of the words. But now I look back and I’m like, wow, what an amazing thing. I also have been able to incorporate in many aspects of my life conflict resolution, advocating for myself, lots and lots of skills that came from being in an environment where social-emotional learning was in the background of my education. It all helped me to not feel the stigma that of course was around me in society. I didn’t realize at the time a lot of the issues that I could have had because I was raised in a very privileged environment where my peers and the adults in my sphere were all very aware of how important social-emotional learning is.
Peggy: It’s so interesting because you don’t have the baggage that many adults can have about their learning difference. In a sense, you are a living example of how social-emotional learning, especially for kids with learning differences can have a real impact. How SEL can make someone truly feel okay about having a learning difference. How you can help someone with dyslexia find their strengths and find a way to be confident out in the world. I know it was great for the kids to meet you. You were really inspiring – a real role model for them! I guess meeting you as a Freshman in college on a rainy Fall day many years ago was certainly meant to be for the future of SuperDville!
You can learn more at www.superdville.com
